Why Youth Voices Matter

Michael Mackniak 0:01

Welcome back to Holding It Together Kinda. I'm Michael McKnack. Today is May 7th, National Children's Mental Health Awareness Day. Usually on days like this, you see a panel of experts in suits talking about comprehensive care and early intervention. But if we're being brutally honest, the real experts are the ones living it. We talk a lot on the show about the social mirror, the pressures to look perfect while you're privately shaking the safety gate. For our kids, that mirror isn't just in their heads, it's in their pockets 24-7. Today we're clearing out their head trash and the clinical jargon. I brought together five young people across a 10-year span from age 13 to 23 to talk about what it actually takes to grow up in a world that never stops watching. We're gonna find out what holding it together really looks like in 2026. Okay. Welcome you guys. I'm happy that you're here. Uh today is, whether I told you or not, it's Children's Mental Health Awareness Day. And I thought that we'd get together with some of my favorite people in the world. And they will all tell you about themselves as we go through this little interview today on our on our Holding It Together kind of podcast. So I'm gonna ask a bunch of questions of these guys. They range in age from 13 to 23, and just so you know, they happen to all be my kids. Oh, I guess without with the exception of Faith. Faith, how you doing? Good how you. I'm good. Faith isn't my kid, but I think I feel like I I want to treat her like my kid. So you count, all right, Faith. So, guys, I'm gonna just ask you a bunch of questions about mental health awareness and what you guys are seeing in your schools or you're not seeing in your schools, and with your friends and Jake at your new job and at work. And Ellie,

Ellie On Friends And Pressure

Michael Mackniak 2:10

I'm gonna start with you, kiddo. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Okay.

Michael Mackniak 2:14

You good? All right, so tell everybody about who your name is.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

My name is Ellie.

Michael Mackniak 2:21

Your name is Ellie. What grade are you in?

SPEAKER_01 2:23

I'm in seventh grade.

Michael Mackniak 2:25

All right. What do you what are you doing these days that got you really excited and fired up, kiddo?

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Getting home and going to sleep.

Michael Mackniak 2:40

All right. Yeah, so Ellie, we're here talking about mental health awareness because that's what we do on this podcast. You are 13 years old, you're at the very beginning of this. Do you feel in any way like you are in a stage where you need to be performing for your friends, or do you you feel like you can't be just your authentic yourself in school or around your friends and stuff?

SPEAKER_01 3:07

I don't feel like I have to perform for my friends because I already like kind of know them and they know me, so I feel kind of comfortable like talking to them and stuff.

Michael Mackniak 3:18

Well, that's important, right? Yeah, and now at age 13, you've kind of figured out good friends, bad friends, and how to navigate that, huh? Yeah, okay. All right, that sounds positive. Going in the

Jake Clears The Spotlight Myth

Michael Mackniak 3:35

right direction. Hey Jake, yeah. How old are you?

SPEAKER_07 3:39

I'm 23, living out in New Mexico currently. Young uh Air Force officer. I've got the privilege of leading around 70 people currently, all the way from the ages of 18 to say 40, to keep the older guys in check.

Michael Mackniak 3:54

That's not bad for it for a kid in seventh grade.

SPEAKER_07 3:57

Yeah, right.

Michael Mackniak 3:58

Yeah. With with the mustache back again, huh?

SPEAKER_07 4:03

Yeah, it's kind of yeah, part of the culture, you know, part of the culture.

Michael Mackniak 4:06

Yeah. Hey, so Jay, looking back at the 13-year-old you and looking at your sister. What's some like one bit of head trash that you know of or that you carried along with you that you maybe believed back then that you finally got rid of and cleared your head of now as a 23-year-old young adult, you know, in the military and serving your country.

SPEAKER_07 4:29

Yeah, for sure. I kind of I know what she means in terms of you know, you've kind of got a good friend group already. However, I do think that looking back, knowing and thinking that not everyone is paying as close attention to me as I think they are, you know, like way more than I thought they were. You know, every like you're young, you think all eyes are on you all the time. But now, even being like 23, like even through high school and college, 23 your first big boy adult job, right? No one cares. Because in life, it's in life, it's you, and that's really all you got. You know, it's you've got yourself and a few people around you, and yeah, you gotta be okay with that.

Michael Mackniak 5:11

Do you remember Bobby? Bobby Sacco?

SPEAKER_07 5:14

I remember the name.

Michael Mackniak 5:16

Bobby always used to say, if you could count on your on one hand the number of good friends you have, consider yourself a very, very lucky person.

SPEAKER_07 5:24

Yeah.

Michael Mackniak 5:24

I always thought that was sage wisdom.

SPEAKER_07 5:27

I completely agree.

Michael Mackniak 5:29

So when you're saying that all eyes are not on you and people aren't paying attention to you the way you thought, you mean that in a good way, right?

SPEAKER_07 5:37

Yeah, no, a hundred percent. You know, like you might do something, you know, silly or stupid, you know, on at a school day or whatever. People forget by the end of the week. And you gotta be alright with knowing that, you know, wake up and do it again tomorrow.

Michael Mackniak 5:53

The same silly stuff.

SPEAKER_07 5:55

Yep.

Michael Mackniak 5:57

Fiona, that reminds me of the time that the chair fell down. Remember when your jacket got caught on it at dinner? No,

Fiona And Maya On Real Support

Michael Mackniak 6:05

you don't remember that?

SPEAKER_02 6:06

When when was that?

Michael Mackniak 6:08

We were uh we were having uh Easter or Mother's Day brunch.

SPEAKER_02 6:11

Oh my god, I wanted to die. That was so embarrassing.

Michael Mackniak 6:14

Yeah, and you thought the world was gonna end because the chair fell over. But so Fiona, how much of your mental bandwidth, how much time do you spend trying to look okay for people, do right by people, maybe even people that you don't like? Are you are you getting caught up in all that all that gamesmanship still?

SPEAKER_02 6:37

Not with people I don't like, I don't really care what they think of me because I don't like them.

Michael Mackniak 6:46

Are you are you an outliner, outlier in that regard? Like, are you is that pretty much normal in your age bracket, or are you kind of like abnormal in that way? And I want to call you abnormal, but you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 7:00

Yeah, I don't know because like a lot of girls in my class are always talking like, oh my god, I hate her, I don't care what she thinks about me, but then they act like they're friends, so I might be an outlier.

Michael Mackniak 7:10

Okay, I might I tend to think so. I tend to think so. Hey Maya, question for you. Hi. Oh, wait a second, I forgot to ask Fiona. Fiona, how old are you? 17 about to be 18. About to be 18, and you are about to have a big day coming up, which is my birthday? You're graduating from high school. Oh congratulations to you. Maya, how old are you, Maya?

SPEAKER_04 7:50

Um, I'm 15 years old.

Michael Mackniak 7:53

What grade?

SPEAKER_04 7:55

Ninth.

Michael Mackniak 7:56

And what gets you fired up? What are you excited about these days?

SPEAKER_04 8:01

Uh, I don't know. I like I like I'm glad that summer's coming up and I'm I get to play volleyball every now and then, so that's fun.

Michael Mackniak 8:13

Yeah. Maya's become a volleyball star in the last couple of years, and she works hard at it, and she's getting really good. Gotta hate to admit it, but she is. Hey Maya, when you're struggling, what matters more to you? That high-tech app that your school suggests for you to use, or just personal connection with something that actually hears you and cares about you and that you could talk to?

SPEAKER_04 8:39

I think personal connection is far more important and like like meaningful than an app that is suggested by the school, because you like get to know the other person and you get to know like the ins and outs of them and like what like makes them happy and like what they don't like and all the like stuff that you want them to learn about you as well, right?

Michael Mackniak 9:03

And they you push each other's

Asking For Help At School

Michael Mackniak 9:05

buttons the right way, the wrong way, and and everywhere in between.

SPEAKER_04 9:09

Yeah.

Michael Mackniak 9:11

Yeah. Ellie, I got another question for you. Then I want to I got a question for Faye. When your friends need help, does it feel or when you need help or when your friends need help when you're at school, does it feel like you it's a big maze or a path for you guys to get help?

SPEAKER_01 9:32

I start to think that about that a lot actually, because like to get help, it's not that hard, but sometimes we do get a little scared to go up to people and ask for help because we think that we can handle it on our own, but then when we try to handle it on our own, it doesn't really work out.

Michael Mackniak 9:51

That's actually a really good answer because it's really important for everybody to remember that there are everybody, it's human nature to want to help people. Most of us are just hanging out out here waiting to be asked, right? So if you remember that, it should give you the courage and the strength to ask for the help if you think you need it. People are more than likely who was that. Someone just dropped something anyway. So people are more certainly inclined to help others for sure. So you shouldn't be afraid to ask because people want to be there to help you, they just need to know that you need to help. Do you feel like the adults in charge are looking at the real you when they see you, or just like a quick checklist and going down, you know, whatever and just another kid, and you know, or how do you feel about all that?

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Me? Yeah, you've I feel like sometimes they see the real me, sometimes they see like other kids because some kids are really mean and stuff, but they act like they're really good to teachers, but they're actually not.

Michael Mackniak 11:04

Oh, we have one of those in our family. She's a young adult now, so she's not like that anymore. But

Faith On Being Reduced To Charts

Michael Mackniak 11:10

boy, she was tough. You know exactly who I'm talking about. So do you, Jake. And everybody else, this is Faith, as I said. Faith is a prankster. I call her a prankster, an Emmy winner, and a and uh, and a uh wise guy all at the same time. And I gotta, I'm sorry that I have to hold on to Mackey, you guys, but there's a horrible thunderstorm here, and he is just having a real bad time of it. So, Faith, how are you doing? Good, how about you? I'm doing all right. I'm doing all right. Been raining for hours here. Faith, how old are you?

SPEAKER_00 11:50

I am 19 and I go to college, but right now I'm currently taking a year off.

Michael Mackniak 11:57

You took a year off from school?

SPEAKER_00 11:59

College, yes.

Michael Mackniak 12:00

From college, right? So you took a year off between high school and college? Yeah, that's cool. So let me ask you this, Faith. When you're when you're dealing with specialized needs, it can sometimes feel like you're alone, you're out on an island all by yourself. How do you like who's your kind of crew? Who's the who's the people that the friends or the people around you that you just you want to go to? And they get you, and they don't make you feel like you have to explain yourself every five minutes and repeat your your your angst for whatever that day may be.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

And uh personally, let's just say I've had a lot of people before, but my few people I have love and who clubs, I know are always on my side. But who knows or not.

Michael Mackniak 13:12

You are always on your side through good things and bad things no matter what. And like Jake and like Jake and I were saying, it may not be that many, it's only a handful of people or or or whatever, but the few the few quality people mean much more than having a whole bunch of people, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Absolutely.

Michael Mackniak 13:35

Oh no, thank you for what you do. So you guys know Faith is quite the activist herself. And you are you gonna have your podcast going all summer?

SPEAKER_00 13:45

Definitely, most likely.

Michael Mackniak 13:47

Faith does a podcast on her own where she's got all kinds of cool guests and things like that. And just when her mom was kidding around with Jake before, but yeah, I mean, Faith knows a lot of people and and uh in a lot of places, and she's I'm not I'm not exaggerating what I said she's the subject of an Emmy Award-winning segment, right, Faith?

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Oh cool, Cohen. I'm not from a thought life person, coin suit.

Michael Mackniak 14:16

That's not you. It's I I think

Social Media As A Double Edge

Michael Mackniak 14:20

it's all about you, and so you should be really proud of that. Anyway, Jake, looking back at the last 10 years, I mean, when you were Ellie's age, 13, where did you feel that the safety net was the thinnest? Where were where did you feel safest, or where did you feel not so safe?

SPEAKER_07 14:42

Yeah, for 13-year-old me and my peers, definitely probably the start of social media for good and bad. You had an easier way to like talk to your friends when you weren't at school, but on the other hand, you also had a really easy way to compare yourselves to others being so young, and it was a kind of a transition, right? Because you know, didn't really have a lot of social media, like didn't exist when I was younger. Well, it existed when you get to use it, not like it does today, though. You know what I mean? Like you have Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter, all like TikTok, all these platforms that like even if young kids are using them, there's so many more avenues to compare yourself to others, but also talk to your friends on the other hand, too.

Michael Mackniak 15:29

Yeah, yeah. So it but it's I think it's a double-edged sword for sure. But I mean, I'm I'm not a big fan of social media. I know it's a necessary evil in our lives, and it's not going anywhere anytime soon, but it certainly has changed a lot in 10 years. I mean, and the the accessibility, I mean, it's it's in your hand all the time. I mean, not for nothing. We're all talking via social media, a platform right now, right? Trying to get word out to help other people. So let's talk about that stuff. Let's talk about stigma and the system. And Maya, back to you. You still awake?

SPEAKER_04 16:08

I am.

Michael Mackniak 16:10

We talk about early intervention, right? And trying to get out in front of things. So if kids have problems, we want to get out in front of it so that we can help them help themselves earlier. And that's that's a clinical goal that a lot of people have. But to you guys, you collectively here on the screen, but also my you and your friends, what does support actually look like? Like, where do you go? Is it a therapist's office? Is it having somebody like to talk to, like your sister? I don't even know if you guys are speaking right now, you know. I'm kidding, Fiona. So what does that look like? What does support look like to you?

SPEAKER_04 16:48

Probably someone who like actually listens and like who I like who I speak to frequently, like a friend or Fiona, for example. It just like it, if you like have someone who actually listens to you, it just builds deeper connection and like it like allows you to like share more than like if you like were meeting with like a stranger or something.

Michael Mackniak 17:13

Right. No, I agree with you there. So yeah, it makes more sense to if you have somebody that you could trust and you feel comfortable with, they know you, you know them. I mean, it it makes perfect sense that you'd want to go to them more than say a therapist. I I understand that, but there is value in therapy. I mean, I I would never say there's not. Do you agree with me?

SPEAKER_04 17:35

No, of course there's value with therapy, but if you're new to something like it, it would like help if you have a friend with you, or not with you, but like as a support.

Michael Mackniak 17:48

Yeah, I get what you're saying. Yeah, no, I mean, listen, I always say, you know, therapy is great because you could complain, carry on all you want for an hour, they got to sit there and listen to you, and you're paying them. So why not do it? Do you like when when your friends, when you're talking to your friend, do you like when they give you feedback or you just want them to listen?

SPEAKER_04 18:12

The feedback is very helpful because it lets you it lets you like realize what is like happening, but the listening ear is also good plus, yeah.

Michael Mackniak 18:24

The active listening, right? I hear you. I agree. I I and I would say that I I've seen firsthand that you guys do have a pretty good rapport and good relationship with your mom in that regard. So we've got to give a little credit where credit's due, right? Yeah, you could admit it, Fiona. You could admit it. Never mind. Hey, Faith, I got a question for you. So I've been calling myself a sentimental radical because I believe that the human pulse is much more important than any kind of clinical checklist. In your experience, Faith, with the doctors and the therapists, and how often do you feel like they're really seeing you as a person versus seeing a diagnosis on a screen or in a in a chart or whatever?

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Honestly, I don't really often because growing up like how many medical I have, not many o'clock is with that kind of best. Or I was gonna have good one.

Michael Mackniak 19:39

So they didn't you don't think they heard you well enough and knew you well enough? No. And so, well, I mean, here again, you got a very strong mom who's a very strong advocate who and you guys are like best buddies. I see your interactions with each other, and I love how you pick on your dad all the time and play jokes on him. That's the best. So, so I mean, you've been through a lot of doctors, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Oh, yeah, frequently four operations.

Michael Mackniak 20:12

And you're 19 years old. Jeez. So 54 operations in 20 years. That's uh over two operations per year.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

That's no, I'll hopefully more than that.

Michael Mackniak 20:35

You had a year where you had 20 operations?

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Yeah, my life.

Michael Mackniak 20:40

Really?

SPEAKER_02 20:41

In a five-week period.

Michael Mackniak 20:44

Twenty operations in a five-week period.

SPEAKER_02 20:46

Yes, yes, yeah.

Michael Mackniak 20:48

Yeah, and and yeah, no wonder it's frustrating in the in the medical care that you're getting, right? So it's important. It's important that uh, you know, uh my friend uh Rebecca Iantoni said that one thing that she likes to do for her son G, who among other things, he's he's autistic and he has um physical needs, but she likes to bring a video of her son into the doctor's appointments so that

Inclusion And Life Skills Gaps

Michael Mackniak 21:20

they can see the real G, like what he's like on a day-to-day basis, and how funny he could be, and and how he actually likes to sing he actually likes to sing dirty songs and freak his mom out and stuff like that. So I thought that that was a really cool lesson that she she told me about. Fiona, where do you see where do you see the most at me kids in your out in the community and stuff? And where are they kind of falling through the cracks in the system?

SPEAKER_02 21:54

I'm sorry, you glitched out. I'm sorry.

Michael Mackniak 21:57

That's okay. I asked you, where do you where do you See kids that are really in need in your school or in the community. Where are they falling through the cracks? Where are they not getting the help that they need?

SPEAKER_02 22:13

I don't really like see them around the school very often unless they're going to get lunch or breakfast.

Michael Mackniak 22:22

Talking about kids that are like special needs or in Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Yeah, they're really confined to only one area in the school. And they're like not like really like allowed out, which is kind of sad to me. Cause like I feel like they need to get like so like I don't want to sound like rude, because I'm kind of scared of sounding rude, but like because the only people they really interact with are just like the same like 10 kids or 15 kids.

Michael Mackniak 22:53

Yeah. Yeah. So they're not big on the social integration thing in your school.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

No, and I and I understand it's for good cause because kids can be disgustingly mean, but there are some good kids out there that like genuinely like want to talk to them and be their friend. Like some kids in my grade, they are they help them and they like they're really, really nice. So I wish that they like were allowed to like actually interact with more people because that could help them.

Michael Mackniak 23:27

No question about it. I will say that there was one time there was one time I did a I was substitute teaching in father school. You're still a principal, and there was one kid that was had specialized needs, cognitive mental health issues, and this kid took up so much of my attention that I couldn't pay, and this was in gym class, so it wasn't even like in a you know a regular classroom. This was in a gym class I was subbing it, and that kid took so much attention that I couldn't pay attention and let the kids go off and do the exercise or whatever we were doing in the gym. So that's an extreme example, yeah. But to hear that that the school, at least your school, is sort of getting away from that inclusion is really frankly kind of troublesome to me. I agree. How do you feel about you and your friends and I don't know, all those other kids? How do you feel about the way that the school is really preparing you guys for young adulthood and what's coming, what's coming next? I mean, you're going to college in the fall, and you know, it's big big times coming for you, man. You you got a lot of changes coming quick.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

Yeah, like they definitely they definitely teach you like good, like I'm I'm trying to word this, but educational things, but not really life skills. The only life skills class that we really have is just financial lit or like business stuff that can like help you manage money, but they don't really teach you how to actually like sustain for yourself. It's just all oh, it's either like oh, this lesson, like math and English, and then you have your sciences, but it's never teaching you like oh, how to like I don't know, like fend for yourself, maybe also I know like your parents can teach you that, but it's very important for schools to teach you that as well. Because what if kids at home don't have that opportunity for their parents to teach them and schools are providing that?

Michael Mackniak 25:43

I didn't even think of that. That's a really strong point. Yeah, and I mean I I know that those things have gotten less and less, like uh you know, the old days of grocery shopping financing your checkbooks, home economics, yeah, all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 25:58

Yeah, because all we have now is just financial lay, and that just teaches you how to deal with money, not how to actually like live.

Michael Mackniak 26:05

Well, since you started working, you're you're daddy warbucks over there. Oh, yeah. Better learn how to use it. I mean Maya, when do you get to let your mask down and be a kid? You know, getting back to what Jake was saying before about social media being at you constantly. Do you feel that? And when do you when when can you sort of brush that off to be a kid?

SPEAKER_04 26:33

I find that when I'm hanging out with my friends, I like let loose and I just like act like myself more than like putting up a mask or like a mask and like trying to be or like seem more like nonchalant as as the the okay, I'm gonna stop now.

Michael Mackniak 26:57

But you're not trying to be cool when yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:03

I try to be like more like myself rather than like what the people at school would want me to act like.

Michael Mackniak 27:12

Well, that's important. So you're you're you think that you the people, yeah, other people at school who are sort of outside of your friend group, you think that they have expectations of you to act one way versus the way that you want to be?

SPEAKER_04 27:26

I wouldn't say that people expect me to act differently because I while I I typically act like a more tamed-down version of myself while at school. But when I'm with my friends, I'll like um like talk a little louder, like be a little more like yeah.

Michael Mackniak 27:49

I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying. You can let you let loose. And that goes back to what Jake was saying at the very outset. It's like, you know, not as many people are watching your every move as you think they are at at 15, at 13, at 17, you know, it's it's so that maybe a good a good thing to take out of this, right? And just be yourself and be with your friends because I know you and you're a cool kid. So and your friends know you and they think you're cool, kid. If you can win over to all the friends you have, certainly many out, many more out there that would want to be friends with you too. Jay, what are you working on mental health-wise,

Letting The Mask Down

Michael Mackniak 28:35

a mental health goal or anything that you haven't reached yet? That you think that as at 18, 17, 13, now at 23, what are you still struggling with as a as a young adult and as a career guy? I mean, you're a second lieutenant in the Air Force now.

SPEAKER_07 28:53

Yeah. All right, it's a little bit different for me, just because I'm in a kind of a different position than a lot of my peers that are also 23. For me personally, definitely something that I'm trying to work on and get better at. You know, I can articulate the mission really well, I can articulate what we're doing behind the scenes to get the mission done really well and work things, but kind of articulating you know to myself and my friends around me, like when we take the uniform off, when we take those stripes off, how things are going, and like articulating how I'm doing and feeling-wise. And then she's always kind of you know, I don't know, you know, from like the man's perspective, you know, it's like it's hard for me to you know really come out there and like say, hey, you know, today sucked. Like, I'd like let's just go grab a beer, like let's just hang out, you know. Right.

Michael Mackniak 29:45

So do you think it's because the introspection part of it, the peeling back your own onion, so to speak, is the tough part of it, or is it just not so much getting deep into what you're you're you're all what makes you tick, but is it about how you how your friends not explain it to your friends because of embarrassment or whatever the case may be?

SPEAKER_07 30:12

I don't know. A mix of a mix of both, you know, like especially in like the world now, it's you don't want to be judged for you know screwing something about work or if you you know are feeling a certain type of way. But on the other hand, too, you know, like I've got a good friends around me that like like yo man, what's going on? It's okay to be hurting, kind of. I read a quote the other day that like I actually weirdly thought about once, and I also started reading, which is also a weird thing. I'm really bored. I it was the book can I swear on here? The subtle art of not giving a fuck. That book. Yeah, in that book, there's a quote by Mark Manson, and it's something about the desire for a positive experience is a negative experience, and accepting a negative experience leads you to more positive experiences, and knowing that today was tough, you know, mentally, emotionally,

Jake On Men Naming Feelings

SPEAKER_07 31:05

physically, that's okay. And accepting that it leads you to a better tomorrow than just beating yourself up and digging yourself in that hole over it. And I think that rings true too, even like being a 23-year-old in the Air Force, in my position, too.

Michael Mackniak 31:19

I think it rings true for every single person on the planet, no matter if you're maybe 23, 23, 13, whatever. Right. You know, it's like expectations. I think expectations can be be an enemy. Is Mark is he the guy that that uh sings all the Queen songs so perfectly?

SPEAKER_07 31:38

No, that's Mark Martell. Mark Martell, right?

Michael Mackniak 31:41

Mark, this guy's an actor, right? You're talking about Mark Manson.

SPEAKER_07 31:45

I have no idea who Mark Manson is. I just he said the quote.

Michael Mackniak 31:49

No, all right, Mark Manson, whoever you are. That was a good quote. Yeah, hey Maya, what do you think your generation, you and your friends, how can you from where you're at to change how we talk about the chronicity, like chronic stress in in the schools and the colleges and the pressure you feel?

SPEAKER_04 32:18

I would say uh that um like the chronic stress that you feel is uh wait, could you repeat the question? You were glitching.

Michael Mackniak 32:35

I just oh is that what you guys are gonna say every time you forget what you're gonna say? I it's no, you actually were.

SPEAKER_04 32:40

You were like you're you're like repeating I got lost.

Michael Mackniak 32:46

I was just wondering what you think you can do in terms of taking a leadership role in you and your friends. I mean, you're you're you're coming into your young adulthood too. And what can you do to help everybody talk about the stresses that you feel or the pressures that you're under?

SPEAKER_04 33:05

I feel like we like as a generation should put less pressure on like feeling okay, and it should we should like start highlighting the fact that it's like okay to not be okay, as corny as that sounds.

Michael Mackniak 33:23

It doesn't sound corny at all. In fact, I wrote up I wrote that up there to ask Jake and I skipped over. How do we make it okay to not be okay? That's a great way to say it, Maya. I think that's really pretty insightful. Fiona, you falling asleep?

SPEAKER_03 33:37

You laying down?

Michael Mackniak 33:38

No, if you're standing not, like I said, you're on right on the edge of adulthood. You're going to college and you're you know, you're gonna have a whole bunch of new that experience. And what's the biggest piece of like head trash that you keep telling yourself? Because I know you get yourself really freaked out really easily, right? What do you what are you trying to what are you trying to get out of your head that the system has tried to hand you? Like what what do you want to leave behind as you go forward into college and into young adulthood that you otherwise may not be able to?

SPEAKER_03 34:14

Um I guess like the feeling I'm gonna fail everything, even though I'm not. I know I'm not.

Michael Mackniak 34:23

Like when you're playing your video games and screaming and yelling and afraid.

SPEAKER_03 34:27

No, like if I fail like one quiz and I think it's the end of the world, like that's not.

Michael Mackniak 34:34

No, I know what you're saying. You're right, and that goes back to something we've already talked about here, too. It's just the day, you know, the sun all the sun will rise tomorrow, and you know, and and you're at the point now, you're graduating, you're getting you're moving on. It's only a month left. Jeez, I can't even believe that. Six weeks left, right? And you guys are all done with school.

SPEAKER_03 34:56

I think so. My official last day is like the 22nd, so 22nd of May?

Michael Mackniak 35:02

Yeah. Oh wow, good for you. That's

Making It Okay To Not Be Okay

Michael Mackniak 35:05

because you're a senior, yeah. Right, Maya, how much longer do you have to go to school?

SPEAKER_04 35:11

Um, well, I think 37. Oh, why do you know like exactly? I think we end on June 22nd or something.

Michael Mackniak 35:22

Yeah. Hey, Faith, with all these doctors and lawyers and politicians out there who think that they know how to fix everything, you're living it every day, right? You're living because you've had medical issues and things like this. What is one piece of advice that you'd give to the people in charge, these doctors, lawyers, politicians? What would you tell them about being able to keep the human touch at the center of everything that they do and the importance of it?

SPEAKER_00 35:53

When it comes to fixing, some kind of all the people you can let you know, like tell them how to fix you, because even if gossip and help fix you with a body looking on here, not everyone knows what's going on with you. Not everyone knows how to fix you in the right way. Sometimes you only you know how to help yourself and take yourself without people telling you how or no. And that makes them listen to you.

Michael Mackniak 36:24

So do you think that knowing yourself so well and knowing what makes you tick? Not only is it important, obviously, but but you can then take that and be strong with that and tell the other people, tell these doctors and lawyers and politicians what it is that you need and what makes you stand up. You think that's important?

SPEAKER_00 36:49

I find that is. Um sometimes uh, for example, um, if the nuclear cooperation and uh best for news is kind of real like that. Sometimes some people nuclear are craft away, and good thing can make sure that they're okay with it. And that being a person, it'll be okay enough for it, also.

Michael Mackniak 37:28

Yeah, if you're okay with it, why shouldn't they be okay with it, right? Yeah. I mean, I think that sometimes, as I said, I think that people are just trying to fix, fix, fix when things aren't broken. Do you agree with me?

SPEAKER_00 37:43

I agree with you. I sometimes what I cannot see.

Michael Mackniak 37:50

Yeah, excellent point. Hey Maya, if you could smash the social mirror, and I don't necessarily only mean the social media mirror, just for one day, just for one day, just be completely radically honest with everyone around you. What's the first thing that you'd say to everybody?

SPEAKER_04 38:14

What would I say? Maybe

Self Advocacy For Vulnerable Kids

SPEAKER_04 38:20

I'd say it's like okay to be yourself because um like societal standards put so much pressure on fitting in and being like everyone else. So I would say it's okay to like dress a different way or like different music or like just be like have like a different personality than everyone else and have your own like interests and whatnot.

Michael Mackniak 38:48

Yeah, no, I think that's really Ellie. Do you agree with that at 13? Because I think, frankly, Al, I think you do a pretty good job of sort of marching to your own drummer. Do you agree with what Maya said?

SPEAKER_01 39:02

Yeah, I think it's hard to fit in because a lot of people like different music than me and like dress differently than me and stuff.

Michael Mackniak 39:12

But again, does that you don't seem that doesn't seem to bother you so much, and you just you you like what you like and and you and your friends go about doing whatever you do.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

So yeah, but at school it's more different than just hanging out with my friends. Like if we're in public and there's a lot of people, then if something like happens where like someone like like if you're sitting down and then the chair falls on you or something, I get like very embarrassed and stuff. But if it was just like with my friends, then I wouldn't get as like I wouldn't get embarrassed, but when it's with more people and people that I don't really talk to, then it's very like embarrassing.

Michael Mackniak 40:00

Yeah, I I think that that's uh human nature. I think that we all get embarrassed when embarrassing things happen.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

Yeah.

Michael Mackniak 40:07

Um some of us and I, you know, for me, if I if you pulled a chair out from under me and I fell down on my rear end, you know, at my age, what do I care? I'd laugh. I'd chase you around the the restaurant, but then we'd laugh about it. I mean, it goes back to when when Fiona was about your age and she pulled that chair down that we were talking about earlier completely by accident without even knowing. She was horrified, it ruined her whole day. And and just by proxy, it basically ruined all of our days. But look at her face. But no, I've only I'm half kidding, but you know, obviously, you and and and the the embarrassment factor is triggered by different things for different people, too. So, what may be embarrassing to Fiona may not be embarrassing to Faith, and Faith may be not to Ellie. So I think it's just a mat is it is it just a matter of being confident with who you are, like Maya was saying, and being confident in your own skin, Elle.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

Um, I think so, yeah.

Michael Mackniak 41:09

But it's still hard to do, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 41:11

Yeah, like if you have good friends and stuff, and you know a lot of people and you feel comfortable and you feel like good and stuff about yourself, then I feel like it wouldn't be as embarrassing.

Michael Mackniak 41:26

Well, I think that if you can laugh at yourself, you really need to be able to laugh at yourself before you can really laugh at anybody else, right? I mean, yeah, and and and I don't mean laugh at in terms of making fun, I think having some some humility is really important. Jake, if you could take a take us back to that simpler time we were talking about before, before the real onslaught of social media, because you're yeah, you grew up straddling both sides of it, you know. But imagine no no more phones, none of the more of the personal connection. Do you think that mental health would be easier or just different for young people?

SPEAKER_07 42:08

I don't know if you could necessarily label it as easier because there's obvious there's no way to know, right? And we could talk about that all you want, but I think it would just be different. For what it's worth, I do think, especially now, more so in the last, you know, like six years than ever, the social media has helped the stigma around mental health and helped bring awareness to the fact that hey, it's okay, versus when I was younger, and even like when Ellie was around, like when around when Ellie was born, it was still kind of that whole you have mental health problems, you're weird, you know, like that's not normal. And I think social media has actually helped bring and advocate for that. I mean, like, we're here doing this, like you said earlier. Yeah, but on the other hand, you wouldn't necessarily have that also aspect of the strive to compare yourself and to be better, right? Like super easy to go ahead and I don't know if that's true.

Michael Mackniak 43:10

I don't honestly, I and I love what you said, and it goes back to what Fiona was saying too about how important the socialization and the integration of all the kids in the school is so important. But you know, I I'm thinking as I was asking you that question, and I'm listening to what Ellie just said and what Maya said before that, and then you know what Faith was talking about too, and and having that self-confidence, dude. I can distinctly remember emotions that I felt in seventh grade. I can distinctly remember, you know, being crushed by the girl in high school or college or even law school. So I don't know that I think that that there's a lot of stuff that you guys are exposed to that we never were. And some of it's really bad, but some of it's really good. To your point, this idea of exposure to different people in different circumstances is probably a really good thing that that you're seeing that not everybody is as fortunate. And it's our sort of job on this planet to help each other out.

SPEAKER_07 44:18

Yeah, right. Well, especially like uh let's say, like, you know, you're young in seventh grade, you're crushing on that girl, and like, you know, it doesn't go well. You could use social media to like, I don't know, almost find the other people. Like, you know, bro, I was in seventh grade too. Like it happens, man. You know, like keep keep your chin up. For instance, like I work, it's odd, it's really weird. Half of my two out of the three of my maintenance shops also share a building with part of the uh mental health team on the base that I work at. Uh that's an odd setup. But sometimes there's three doors to the building, and sometimes some of the patients walking through, I mean the entrance for like directly pretty much straight to my office. And you know, they might not know where they're going, so I'll ask them like, hey, you know where you're going, you need help finding X, Y, and Z. Because I know all my airmen that are coming through, so I recognize who's not them. And sometimes you know they get odd, and I think like taking that stigma away.

Michael Mackniak 45:12

So they feel embarrassed at the wrong thing.

SPEAKER_07 45:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, they're not even embarrassed, but it's like, oh, now you know my face. You know.

Michael Mackniak 45:20

Well, and that's and that's that's an age-old problem, you know, where and that's probably not an ideal setup for client approach.

SPEAKER_07 45:30

It's not, I understand why they do it, you know, to be like nitty, gritty, and like embedded with the unit, uh, but it's also you know, the uh the weird part of it. But like at the same time, I think the last, like I said pretty previously, the last six years, social media has helped that stigma. Like, I personally view it as like it's no different than going to the doctor for a broken toe, you know. Like, if you need help, you need help, and it is what it's like, that's okay.

Michael Mackniak 45:57

Yeah, that's a great way to say it, too. Now, I have a question for Faith because Faith people see that you

Adults Who Build The Bridge

Michael Mackniak 46:05

have physical challenges, right? But they don't always see the energy and the effort that you put in to work really hard to overcome and become the awesome person that you are right now, right? And they don't see every day what you what you do to overcome and be the person you are. What do you wish that um like your teachers from the past or in the future or your peers understood about all the invisible work that you do behind the scenes every day just to just to show up and be you?

SPEAKER_00 46:41

Well, a lot of people at first kind of know me going again. I look at things a lot differently, not become a mental illness or anything, and because I see things in a different way, like the thing, kind of things you see, and the things you see will came. I always look with it in a different glass, and not a lot of people understand what I see things. And uh sometimes I look at a people group and no one knows how I see her, how some people will see her, because a lot of special names see things where I will glyph. A little glyphosate and normal, but all the same.

Michael Mackniak 47:32

Well, yeah, I mean, naturally, I think I think your point is well taken. You yours you see things from a diff very different lens than perhaps a lot of other people, and you could probably relate to a lot of other young people with specialized needs and whatnot, uh and see, as you said, the perspective changes. So I think it's it do you I mean I I hope that you work really hard to explain to the other teachers, the other kids, the other professionals what that other perspective may be. Do you do you really think that's a real big part of what makes you you?

SPEAKER_00 48:16

Yes, because when I understand different things, my mind a lot more than a lot of people can handle, cause for example, I would have four different thoughts all at once, somehow I understand him. And sometimes it's hard to explain because sometimes certain idiots won't listen. But I guess sometimes the white people will and will understand you.

Michael Mackniak 48:51

Yeah, yeah, your mom understands you very well. So do you think that so you have all these thoughts racing your head, you try to get them all out at the same time, and it just blows people's blows people away because you got too much, too much going on in that head?

SPEAKER_00 49:06

Oh, sometimes.

Michael Mackniak 49:08

Sometimes. All right, Ellie. What is one thing that you get to do for yourself this week? What one thing that you get to do for your own your own joy, something that you are going to do that's gonna make that you has nothing to do with school, homework, your reputation, what the other kids are thinking. What do you get to do that's exclusively for Ellie?

SPEAKER_01 49:35

I like to do my like I don't really know how to answer that question because when I do stuff like for myself, I don't really include other people when I do it. So, like, for example, what I do is sometimes I watch a movie for myself and just like sit down for a little bit, or I like play a game like with my mom and my brother, or sometimes I like to try new things, like because I like doing hair and like makeup and stuff, so I like to try new things with that too, which is fun like for me.

Michael Mackniak 50:17

Yeah, and you've loved that, you've loved that since you were little, since your cousin got you all into the makeup and the hair stuff. I mean, since you were little, little.

unknown 50:26

Yeah.

Michael Mackniak 50:26

You'd walk around with makeup on when you were three. All right, I got a question for you, Maya.

SPEAKER_05 50:31

Okay.

Michael Mackniak 50:32

When you think about the most vulnerable kids in your neighborhood or your school or whatever you want to call it, the ones that really don't have a voice and and really need somebody to help them, what's one real radical change that we need to make to ensure that those kids aren't forgotten too?

SPEAKER_04 50:53

I say that one's like tricky. I feel like we should make sure that like there everyone is like included in in activities, like whether it's neighborhood activities or school activities, but I think everyone should be like included and have like a fun time or like have like the chance or ability to participate in anything that they want to, whether it's like be a sport or like a field day or something like that.

Michael Mackniak 51:27

Well, what well, so what what about the kids that choose not to go to the prom or things along those lines, go to that dance. I mean, you you said yourself, if they want to, they should be allowed to do it. Are you saying that they're not allowed to do it? Or do they feel they don't necessarily feel like they want to, they just feel like they shouldn't or can't, or they're too embarrassed, or they wouldn't be welcome.

SPEAKER_04 51:52

I feel some kids who don't participate feel as though they shouldn't participate, whether it's because they're not popular or they're not athletic or they're not like have enough friends to go to these schools or like the school dances or the sports or the sporting events.

Michael Mackniak 52:14

Yeah, that's that's a tough one, man. You know, I hope but I hope that you guys can encourage those kids to really pick yourself up by the bootstraps to the extent you can and really participate because you know it takes everybody to make up a community, you know? It takes all of those folks. So that's that's a really interesting point. Hey Jake, if you if you were handed the map of an entire mental health system like what I work in, right? What's the first dead end you would remove to make things easier for families like or even the kids that like Maya's talking about? What would be something that you just scratch out right away?

SPEAKER_07 52:56

Man probably the status quo. And you know, some I feel like you know, some families could hit a point in getting whoever it may be that they're related to or even themselves care that like they kind of feel like they've done all that they can do, or they've almost hit, you know, they hit that roadblock. Like, all right, you know, I've been talking to my therapist for X for four months now, and you know, things are getting better, but removing the status quo in terms of like being better than yesterday and continue to doing that, and even like as the caregivers, how can we continue to provide even better care, even though you might be providing the pinnacle, right? Beat down the pinnacle and be just be better.

Michael Mackniak 53:41

Yeah, well, and and just keep doing what you're doing because you have to. I mean, at some level, we have to know that what we can what we can offer is enough because that's all we've got, you know. So Faith, I got one more question, and it's for you, all right? All right, so if you have both physical and and um social or mental health needs, the system can feel like a giant maze, right? What is one part of that maze you wish you could just blow up and rebuild to make it easier for those guys that feel that way, that they have physical and mental health issues. What do you wish that you could remove and just what obstacle can you get out of their way so that they can get the help that they need?

SPEAKER_00 54:30

Honestly, I thought that people advocate for themselves and others and uh in this world could go, not a lot of people are available for one another as much as a you can mean for what I heard because I wasn't born back then then. But a lot of people could go on not exactly bath time could be honest and uh very advocate or help other than you. And somehow could eventually um the illness or me or whatever, it has uh use a clean venture, but if I could blow up any time, it will be that violence got the help in me by others.

Michael Mackniak 55:22

And to to make it okay to be like you were saying, uh your self-advocate, right? Ellie, do you ever feel like it's it's not okay to be your self-advocate?

SPEAKER_01 55:40

Well, like, what do you mean by that?

Michael Mackniak 55:43

Do you do you ever feel like you can't stick up for yourself or to tell adults or even other kids what it is that you think that you need deep down inside to make Ellie feel better or to make Ellie Ellie?

SPEAKER_01 55:55

Yeah, because sometimes, like I'm not saying this just for my friends, but sometimes like if me and someone are like in an argument or something, and I try to say, like, you know, this is making me feel like upset, and like why this is, they don't really like understand fully. They just kind of like go about it like it's fine or whatever, but also I don't really like saying like that I feel like this. I kind of just like let it slide and stuff.

Michael Mackniak 56:27

Yeah, it's it's hard to s to let people know how you're feeling on that level, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 56:31

Yeah.

Michael Mackniak 56:32

How do you feel about letting adults know how you're feeling?

SPEAKER_01 56:36

Well, it depends like what adults it is, because if it's like a teacher that I can trust and like won't tell anyone, then it then it's fine. Like at school, like I don't think I would tell like a teacher what's going on because I don't really like sharing that with teachers, but like if it was someone else, like if it was someone like an adult that I can actually like trust, then I would probably tell them that they won't tell anyone.

Michael Mackniak 57:04

Well, and I'll tell you this much, and we can end here. You know, when you do find that one teacher or two or one a year or whatever it may be, they could be you can remember them for the rest of your life as being that that person who was able to build that bridge for you to cross and to really be a big help. I was thinking about a teacher I had in sixth grade the other day. Her head, her, her, she popped Mrs. Lynch. She popped into my head. If you're still out there, Mrs. Lynch, thank you. You know, and she she was important to me. So if you have an adult like that in your life, consider yourself lucky. And you know, I hope you guys, you know, have your everybody out there listening, you know, you have your parents that hopefully can can be that for you. But having having the structure, having that that outlet is is very important, be it in therapy, like Maya and I were talking about before, or with those good friends who who know you well enough or have been through the journey with you, like some of Jake's friends, it's it's it's what makes all of us stronger, and that is a big part of having our mental health together. So I think you guys did a really great job representing you know everywhere from 13 to 33, uh 33, 23, and everywhere in between. Sometimes you guys sound like you're 33. So thank you for being here and doing this for me and with me. And I'm sure we're gonna get a lot of

Closing Message And Community Invite

Michael Mackniak 58:40

really good feedback from this. So you should all be really proud of yourselves. So thanks, guys. Have a good night. Today is about awareness, but awareness without action is just noise. These kids remind us that positive mental health isn't a destination, it's a daily practice of cleaning the head trash and finding your centeredness in a loud, loud world. To the parents and caregivers listening, your kids don't need you to be perfect. They need you to be present. They need to be reminded that the person matters more than the progress report. And to the young people here today, you're doing better than you think you are. Far, far better. You're holding it together in a world we didn't fully prepare you for. And that makes you more confident than you know. Join our new community at the Mental Health Resource Network on Facebook to keep this conversation going. We're building a bridge, and these kids just showed us exactly why it's so important. Until next time, keep holding it together. Even if it's just kinda uh,